Editor’s note: The following commentary was sent to the Rivard Report in response to a recent article written by Trinity University graduate Jonathan Hernandez, who described the challenges he ultimately surmounted in landing a good job in San Antonio despite his lack of experience.
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Dear Mr. Hernandez:
As a recently retired CEO of a $2 billion financial services firm, perhaps my experience might provide a few insights for your understanding the value of your liberal arts degree.
An acquaintance of mine was the CEO of one of the largest regional banks in Houston. His degrees? B.A. and M.A. in Music. Another is the CEO of a major hotel chain with a B.A. in anthropology. My degree? An M.A. in Theology.
A decade-long tenure as the CEO of a firm with more than 700 employees, combined with more than 30 years as a senior executive in multi-billion dollar firms, placed me in a position to help launch, advance – and sometimes end – careers of college graduates.
You’ve already received exceptional advice from the earlier response to your commentary by Michelle Friesenhahn. Ms. Friesenhahn’s insights regarding the value of a liberal art degree are brilliant – and 100% accurate.
Ms. Friesenhahn wrote:
“Your liberal arts degree is your best friend. As an employer, a liberal arts degree tells me you can communicate, you’ll be more articulate than most; you probably have many interests and are curious about a full spectrum of ideas, interests, and issues – which is paramount in the communications field. Those of us with liberal arts degrees, even boomers, use more of our right brains and tend to problem-solve differently. This asset becomes even more apparent later on in your career.”
Most business schools at universities today are an assembly line disgorging graduates who can compute, but very few who can: (1) discern, (2) think, and (3) explain. Writing skills are dismal among the best of them. You have an advantage, Mr. Hernandez. You have the foundation necessary to differentiate yourself. It was obvious to me in business meetings who did or did not have a strong liberal arts grounding.
Successful CEO’s have little need for more graduates who tell senior management what the “numbers say.” What is desperately lacking are those who can tell management “what the numbers mean.” Data is cheap; gleaning information from data is rare; discerning meaning from information is priceless. This requires critical thinking, not computing.
Graduates who can “connect the dots” are sorely lacking, yet are needed more than ever in a world awash in overwhelming data. Senior executives desperately need on their team those who can read and listen critically, think and analyze analogically, and then communicate metaphorically to diverse internal and external stakeholders.
Business-focused, self-help books abound today, yet most are completely lacking in any understanding that the humanities and classical studies offer as a guide for leadership today. Would you like to read a great story about the management challenges of a boss who had a high-producing, get-things-done, superstar employee, but who was narcissistic, difficult and disruptive? Try the story of Agamemnon and Achilles in “The Iliad.”
You are correct in one respect. Those who graduate with “business” degrees have a slight advantage out of the gate, but this advantage fades fairly quickly. The proof of this, Mr. Hernandez, is that, as reported by Forbes, only 11% of all Fortune 500 company CEOs have a business degree. Personally, there is no doubt in my mind that my B.B.A. got me a job more than 40 year ago, but it was my liberal arts M.A. that got me to the CEO’s chair.
Need more indicators? Read the Brookings Institution report, “Beyond College Rankings.” There, among the rankings of four-year colleges and universities, you’ll discover that a degree from St. Mary’s University on the city’s Westside, with its strong liberal arts core required of even business majors, ranks in value at mid-career in the top 20 of all universities in the nation along with MIT, Rice and other powerhouses.
As to first employment right out of college, here is the hard reality. Think of money flowing through a company like a river. Periodically, management dips a bucket into that flow to pull out some out some of the cash to distribute as pay to employees. In order for that payment to be made to you, you have to “do” something outside of yourself. Work is what you do externally to create value. You must write something, pick up something, make something, move something, or create something that justifies you getting some of that cash.
You, Mr. Hernandez, must exchange your “work” with others along a lengthy, but necessary, line until the exchange reaches those who produce water, food, shelter, clothing, and energy. In the Christian tradition one of the giants was St. Paul, the greatest evangelist of all time. He earned his living as a tent maker. How are you, Mr. Hernandez, going to pay the farmer that produces what you eat?
Take some time to invest in reading the Encyclical by Pope John Paul II, “Laborem Exercens” (On Human Work). You may discover that the late Pope, who was more philosopher than theologian, had a lot to say about the value of work in personal fulfillment, expansion of the soul and the duty to participate in the continuing Creation of our world.
Starting out, you might have to take on work that you deem not appropriate for your degree. If you can get past that, you can get started. Once you get hired, focus on what you’re doing. Then volunteer for everything that the company does in the community. Get on every employee committee and offer to help with the work, write the minutes, publish the reports, and develop the plans. Become the “go to” person. You’ll get to show your “stuff” by applying your liberal arts degree to that which is not routine.
First and foremost, keep a laser focus on doing what you get paid to do. The Jesuits have a motto, in Latin: “Age quod agis.” “Do what you are doing.”
Avoid falling into the trap of the “waiting to be discovered” syndrome. If you do, you’ll be tagged as a would-be Hollywood star waiting tables until the film industry finally realizes how great he is, repents, pays him homage and puts him in the latest blockbuster.
Finally, Mr. Hernandez, you used the first person singular “I” at least 51 times in your short commentary. If you talk the way you write, you may be sure that potential employers will notice this about you immediately – as will your peers when you’re hired. Take note that in this response to you, including sharing personal experiences, the first-person singular pronoun was not used even once.
You have a liberal arts degree. Start using it.
*Top image: Downtown San Antonio as seen from UTSA’s downtown campus. Photo courtesy of UTSA.
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Your military experience might have been a big help too!
Good Morning, David. Thank you for the comment. While the military experience shaped and matured me for working hard, it was of zero help in opening doors for employment. My active duty ended in 1976, two years after the end of the Vietnam War. Potential employers were neutral, at best, and some were openly hostile about the employability of vets at that time.
Military expeeience that translates to the civilian sector is helpful in a transition. Many military positions do not provide specific skills that are used in the civilian sector (tank driver, navigator, infantry, special forces …)
Great piece; thanks for publishing, Bob, and thanks to Mr. Speed for sharing his experiences, which though not apples-to-apples track closely to mine as a retired senior military officer with a tremendous–and valuable–liberal arts education from Rutgers (B.A. in Economics and a minor in Philosophy). Also, congrats again to you and your team, Bob, on your nonprofit status approval.
Best advice from Mr. Speed was the use of the word “I.” I (it’s hard not to use) was also surprised by his citation of the types of degrees held by CEOs. His advice is helpful to all.
That sounds wonderful and it’s definitely true that companies want to hire people that can think. But the question most liberal arts majors have is how do you get into
Mr. Speed,
I appreciate the time you took to write this response, however, I feel as though my point was missed. I greatly value my liberal arts education and the advantage I feel it gives me. My point was that I feel it’s our responsibility as millennials to help convey that value to our employers into something practical and tangible – should we be given that opportunity in the first place.
As for the use of the first person: it was an op-ed piece. Most opinion pieces call for strong use of the first person since it is that person’s opinion.
Best,
Jonathan
Hi Jonathan,
Great piece and phenomenal response from Mr. Speed. He seems to have much insight and experience with millennials.
You say “should we be given that opportunity in the first place.” It sounds like your waiting for someone to give it to you , which proves the naysayers right.
A hallmark of the millennial generation is that they create and take those opportunities to add value for themselves- most times without prior approval. Keep doing that.
Also, your point wasn’t missed, although you may have missed his. – Cheers
I greatly appreciate and honor any advice that can be given by trailblazers who have gone before me, as Mr. Speed has.
However, maybe I should have worded it differently: I don’t expect, nor desire everything and anything to be “handed” to me. That was a miscommunication on my part.
Jonathan, I think your message is that you feel you have something of value to offer a company, but it is a real struggle finding the opportunities to communicate your value or actually demonstrate your value. With the struggles I hear about “educated” folks trying to get a job, I find it hard to believe the unemployment rate is 5-6%. For those who are “educated” and looking for a job, but are being unsuccessful at landing one, it can be a bitter pill to swallow knowing they are in the 5-6% category. Life/opportunities in America are different than they were 30-40 years ago and those in their 20s need to understand the differences so they can prepare to overcome the struggles they may encounter-especially associated with having enough funds to someday retire.
Thank you, Mr. Guzman, for the response. It may be worth noting that my reply to Mr. Hernandez did not once contain the term “millennial.”
From my viewpoint as a 67 y/o (baby-boomer), retired CEO, millennials give me tremendous hope for the future – especially in business. My experience is that they smart, insightful, wonderfully (yet pragmatically) idealistic, with a (usually) healthy dose of utilitarian skepticism. The millennial generation generally coms across as not being materialistic , valuing enriching experiences over acquiring “stuff.” What is baffling to me is what seems to be a pervasive inferiority complex which has been my experience in several mentoring opportunities.
It’s not a responsibility as a millennial to help convey value to employers, it’s a responsibility as a prospective candidate. The opportunity is already “given” by its existence, but it has to be found, and it has to be pursued with impeccability. It’s crucial to remember you’re a small fish in a big ocean, and despite being a perfect match for a job, there may be many perfect matches.
As to your over exhaustive usage of the word “I”, it’s already established in your first sentence that you’re speaking in a first person tone, therefore, any following sentences do not require excessive use of the letter I unless you’re transferring ownership of the words between different parties. It detracts from the point you attempt to make, as it makes the tone of your article sound more self-serving than the intended purpose.
I have a Bachelor of Science in Liberal Arts, completed in 2014. Instead of waiting around to get into a job, I’m doing freelance work, creating my own business, and also pursuing my Master’s degree now. To each their own, but the best way to get results is to stay active.
Rick, very intelligent comment. Can you elaborate on how you are able to support yourself while pursuing a masters degree and starting a business? That info may help others figure out how to support themselves while doing unpaid internships, free lancing, starting a business, and pursuing a masters degree. It sounds easy but I’m sure it isn’t. Thx.
Thank you Ken,
It’s certainly not easy, especially when life throws unexpected setbacks. Some debt may be incurred if you don’t have an outside benefactor, but the idea is that these become investments.
Currently, I freelance for San Antonio Express-News and some other clients. While in school, worked odd jobs that may have nothing to do with my career, but can help in other ways, including expanding networks, customer service, and personal development (such as pushing wheelchairs at the airport, being a sushi delivery driver, and working at Geek Squad).
Through all these experiences, I’ve built lasting relationships that have been advantageous later on in unexpected ways. The transition is important too, rather than just quitting, it’s important to leave a contribution and resign on the positive. Additionally, volunteering for important causes has always been thrown into the mix.
No matter what you do, you want to ensure there’s a purpose and that your time was well spent to those around you, not just for yourself; that’s how you leave lasting impressions.
Great advice. I would have been well served to have had your advice not only when I was entering the job market but for life in general.
This is based on statistical outliers and more of an exception rather than a rule. But any degree is better than no degree I’ll agree to that.
Thats definitely true.
The hard part is that most companies hire with a “what can you do for me now” attitude and the very first thing they look for is if you have the ability to do the job.
And of course the higher you go the less important technical ability becomes and the more you become paid for critical thinking, risk taking, communication.
I have spent 20 years in business and have a liberal arts bachelors degree. Could not agree more.
Critical thinking, problem solving, communication skills… are highly valued in any line of work.
Papa found this “practical”.
Thank you Mr. Speed for taking the time to write this. Mr. Hernandez, if you want a job stop emailing open jobs, write a list of companies you want to work for, lookup all their HR people, and go and meet them. Tell them you want to do ‘x’ job for them and that you admire the work they are doing, and you will do the best job for them do you have anything I can do right now? Most people have too much pride to do this and you’ll look vulnerable, but if your serious they will hear you. Some are going to ignore you, others may quickly thank you but I promise you nobody does that and it will be remembered.
oh they’ll remember you alright, but that’s not necessarily a good thing.
Most HR people despise meeting with an unannounced unknown job seeker who thinks they have nothing better to do.
HR offices-a puzzle to me from a staffing viewpoint. Does the HR staff or a machine review applicants skills/abilities for the job, are most jobs posted with a selection already predetermined to avoid some federal regulation/policy violation further frustrating job applicants and wasting HR staff time, are HR offices too dependent on technology to hire the right individuals for the posted positions..? I think really talented people, young and old, are not hired because of the processes used by companies in their hiring practices.
Just when it seemed that this community conversation was winding down, Ken has provided us with an interesting path to explore a bit.
Ken, your reflection is very timely given the job search challenges you and your peers are facing or have encountered when you were in a job search. Let’s see if we can generate some interest. Stand by.
As well as offering my response to Ken, let me see if we can get some of my former colleagues who were senior HR executives to weigh in. I just sent them some emails inviting them to offer some insight. Hopefully they engage.
My input and response should be ready by tomorrow.
What has been the experience of other millennials in this conversation when interacting with HR departments?
Thanks Mr. Speed. I look forward to yours and others’ comments on companies’ hiring processes and their experiences dealing with HR departments.
Greetings this is “Catbert the Evil HR Director”, ready to join in on this conversation. One of the most important decisions a leader makes is who they hire. The role of HR is to support the hiring manager or leader with this decision by screening for cultural alignment and the talent to the demands of the role. This is the time to use those critical thinking skills because if you are choosing to network with HR you aren’t maximizing your odds of selection. You should be networking with the ultimate decision maker, the hiring manager. The reality is we receive 8,000 to 10,000 resumes a year. The hiring manager receives a few a year. If you do connect with HR they then have to influence your profile to the hiring manager which means now you have two people to influence. Odds go down. A candidate referral from a manager or an employee has a higher probability of making it through the process and they are considered reliable as they come from influence within the organization. Don’t just connect with hiring managers on LinkedIn. Review the position description and write a blog and send it to them. Interact with them to show how you use your talents and your liberal arts degree to impact areas that align to the position and culture of the organization.
Does HR use technology to screen? Absolutely and if we didn’t we would never be able to review the volume of resumes. One of the biggest mistakes is candidates don’t market themselves to the outcomes of the role much less the minimum requirements. The selection comes from the position description and that comes from the hiring manager. The intent is to screen IN those who meet those minimum qualifications. So if you don’t market yourself to this you will not make it past the applicant tracking system. We do have to align with affirmative action which the intent is to promote outreach to increase the level of qualified candidates that are diverse or as stated “young and old”. This brings both the benefits of a more diverse talent pool but it also does bring some bureaucratic nuances.
One final point is one of the most important factors we screen out is cultural fit. What does this mean exactly? Your values as they are displayed by your behavior. For example overuse of the word “I” and the ability to self- regulate and take accountability.
Treat your career as a brand and never forget how to stay relevant and who your primary customer is in terms of decision making. Good luck.
Hi Vandi. Thanks for your feedback. I am one of the “older” people looking for supplemental income to my retirement. My closest involvement with HR was as an executive for a public institution where HR reported to me. Our process required the hiring manager to review all applicants for the position and whittle that list down. Depending on the number of applicants, that became a cumbersome process for the hiring manager and encouraged the hiring manager to “close down” the position to avoid receiving more names. Hence, I can see the need for HR to assist the hiring manager in making the list of applicants more manageable. Some of my major concerns regarding the hiring process: 1. It is not very effective, in my opinion, in getting to know who would be a good fit to the organization’s culture if you review just written words-a better way may be through a conversation with the applicant or completion of a personality survey; I have applied for jobs I was “overqualified to do” at the very low end of the hourly wage rate and did not receive one call for an interview (I draw two pensions and am looking for a lower level of stress in a job to supplement my retirement income and find something I would enjoy getting up and doing everyday). Organizations miss out on some very talented and potentially productive people by saying they are “overqualified”; 3. Some of the software used to capture applicant info borders on torture for the applicant. I have 35 plus years of experience and many of the software programs ask me to upload my resume and then type in the exact info again into the program.
I realize there is little time for HR directors to think of better ways to solicit and review talent for the company they work for, but I can’t help but think there has to be a better way for both the HR departments, the companies, and the people eager to find employment to improve the review and hiring of employees. I’m convinced the best way to get an opportunity to be hired is to seek out the job you want, find the hiring authority, and then make contact with him/her-just as you said in your comments.
Ken, I’m an HR manager at a very large San Antonio employer. Let me give you some perspective of how we hire. Hiring is just a portion of what I do. and most of that time is spent using technology ie applicant tracking systems,LinkedIn, etc to find great people or talking to or about prospective candidates. When Im doing it I’m trying to compare someone’s track record against my job. I do that by looking at the work history, prior achievements, and education that is on paper first. It is rare that someone gets to circumvent the process and go straight to an interview/pitch. Nearly all referrals, internal candidates etc are directed to the same process everyone else goes through. once I’ve found the folks who look best on paper, I call the for a phone interview. If things go well they are looking at at least one in person interview. I’ve had calls from people that want to be remembered or stick out and ask to meet with me. When they do that my impression of them is either they must be naive about hiring norms or they think they’re special and can circumvent the process. Here’s some advice, HR types value process because hiring processes are set up to be fair and protect the company from claims of discriminatory hiring. Follow the process. Networking and researching people/companies helps tremendously, but follow the instructions for applying. If you are great we’ll see that when we look at your resume. Stick out by showing your accomplishments on your resume, not by being the person we get annoyed with.
Joey, thanks for the insights.
This article also somewhat implies that those without liberal arts degrees would be lacking in critical thinking, problem solving and communication skills. However, I argue that most college degrees with well-rounded curriculums, whether engineering, business, computer science, or art history, but also importantly someones upbringing and experiences, contribute to those skills. I have degrees in marketing and statistics, both non-liberal arts degrees, so hopefully I am speaking from experience.
Hi Kevin. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.
In fact, my intention was exactly to imply that we are already experiencing a work-world where those without a liberal arts degree will, as you stated “. . . be lacking in critical thinking, problem solving and communication skills.” It’s going to get worse.
You nailed the issue when you used the qualifying term “. . . well-rounded curriculums, . . .”
Well-rounded academic programs are under assault on every campus as the credentialing agencies of academia demand more of the academic hours for their specialties.
Business and SET (Science, Engineering and Technology) schools in universities, needing to get the necessary hours for their programs look to the humanities take what is needed. There is no nefarious intent on the part of Business and SET Dean to cannibalize humanities hours. Most are highly supportive of the humanities.
But the plethora of what must be learned in an undergraduate degree often no longer fits neatly into traditional four-year, 130 semester-hour degree programs.
Adding to the pressure is a culture that has come to regard a university-level education as a vocational school, where the “value” of a college education is expressed as an “ROI” calculation where the starting salary is the numerator and the cost of the degree is the denominator. Politicians are demanding “four year and out” guaranteed degree programs.
Let me assure you that, from my view as a university Chairman, there is no doubt that the Deans and faculty of Business and SET schools in universities want well-rounded students who are engaged in degree programs with a strong liberal arts core. For one, it makes their teaching easier when they have students who can read, write and think. More importantly, their well-rounded students go on to be successful. This is certainly the case at St. Mary’s here in San Antonio.
But many universities have just given up and have gone the vocational school route and it shows in many college graduates entering the workforce today. Consider yourself fortunate to have earned a well-rounded degree. You’re managers and peers appreciate it, too!
Mr. Speed—thank you for this thought-provoking piece. I graduated 5 years ago with a degree in Business and couldn’t disagree more with your statement above about non-Liberal Arts majors cannibalizing humanities and writing. Granted, my school was the University of Texas, and their business school is pretty stellar, but there were a multitude of classes we were required to take there that were invaluable in helping me get and achieve in my job. My degree was in finance, but my career is most certainly not in finance. However, I use valuation and other finance-related knowledge on a daily basis. More importantly, UT required business students to take a class our freshman year that literally taught us how to dress, interview, write cover letters, resumes, etc. We also had a class my senior year that taught us how to write and communicate in a professional environment—how to write professional emails, executive summaries, and other extremely helpful skills that most people take for granted. I’ve helped dozens of non-business majored job-seekers with their resumes by sending them the template we were given at McCombs.
Another important note that you may not be considering—AP classes have allowed many students (myself included) to enter college as essentially a sophomore. I think I had 20 hours of credits due to AP classes before even starting college. Not everyone is fortunate enough to go to a high school that places such a strong emphasis on AP curriculum, but my point is that those credits allowed me to take more of the classes I wanted to take (Roman Literature, Issues in Third World Development, even a class where we were certified to do tax preparation for low-income families).
That being said, the comment that a liberal arts degree should be viewed as an asset OVER business and engineering degrees can be a dangerous one. I think your amazing success story is more of the exception than the rule, and the statistics you cite more a reflection of the sheer number of liberal arts graduates over other degrees.
Thank you, “A,” for your contribution to this wonderfully energizing exchange. One unfortunate aspect of retirement for me is that there are fewer opportunities to engage at this level on a day-to-day basis.
Your professionalism, thoughtfulness, focus and skill in communicating your position are excellent, and very much appreciated.
So has been the input from many of the others who have joined in.
About halfway through the exchanges it dawned on me that there is the factor of the demographics of Rivard Report readers. There is an axiom in photography that if you want to take great photographs, be sure to stand in front of great stuff! The corollary applies here at the Rivard Report for great conversations.
You and I bring different views to the issue of curriculum pressure on the liberal arts requirements for those who are engaged in business and SET studies. Possibly we could encourage the Rivard Report journalists to engage university deans and faculty on the issues?
It would not be appropriate to sign off to you – and many of the others who contributed – by saying; “Good luck in your careers.” Sometimes tells me you’re not going to need it.
Do great things!
Mr. Speed–coming from someone of your achievement, those words of encouragement are especially moving. So often, internet comment sections can devolve into a free-for-all where social norms and courtesy are tossed aside. And while in the real world, I probably would have worded my response to you in a more deferent manner, I sincerely appreciate your constructive response.
Please write more for the Rivard Report! There is much that we can learn from you, and I think your perspective is one that is missing from the website–as evidenced by the lively engagement herein.
Thank you!
Bob,
My 18 year old granddaughter plans to attend St. John’s College in Annapolis, MD in September, 2016, studying their great books curriculum alongside – as she likes to say – “my fellow nerds.” I’ve sent her Ed Speed’s advice as an encouragement.
She ‘gets’ it! When I asked her if she’d thought about how a liberal arts degree might translate into a career, she was ready: “Yes, Papa. I can be a lawyer, a teacher, a CEO. Anything I choose to be – when I’m ready to choose.”
Thanks for publishing this thoughtful advice to young – and old – people. Bill
Everyone gets a ribbon and we all know life is like a box of chocolates, turn the box over and find out which is which, only because of food allergies and that company doesn’t want to get sued.
The fact that one can have a liberals art degree and become a successful CEO says nothing about liberal arts degrees, as a whole, but more about that individual…who likely would have been equally successful with any (or perhaps no) degree.
To suggest that most people would actually be well-off with only a liberals arts degree is a laughable premise, because “most” people use their degree as nothing more than vocational training. For that, a liberal arts degree fails to qualify.
This article is, for me, one of the best explanations of mandatory humanities electives, including upper level writing courses at university.
Twenty-two comments to the original article. I believe this may be a record for a RR article. It serves as a good example of the type of topic people have interest in reading about and may be a guide for future articles published by The RR.
The HR director (Vandi) for a major firm has just joined this conversation in response to “Ken” and others in the comments above. I happen to know Vandi well and her depth of experience. Heed her advice. Her firm has been named several years in a row as one of the best large companies to work for in Houston.
Repeal Griggs vs Duke Power Company, bring back aptitude testing.
Griggs doesn’t prohibit job related aptitude tests. It just makes you have to be able to prove job relatedness.